SquadB Gaming taking a character from Alpha to Omega

SquadB Gaming, the youtube channel that focuses on games like Eve Online amongst others.  He also has a website https://squadb.com/

Alpha to Omega Venture

The creator has launched a project to take an Account from Alpha to Omega.

The first episode is on youtube, called EVE Online Hardmode:– Episode 1: 0 ISK, No Help, One Character

Starting by creating a new Account and going from there.  No help, no loans.  So starting from scratch.  Seems he will explore a number of routes to get there - so will be interesting which he uses the most to gather the isk.  My bet is on trading but lets see.

The creator is doing this as a break from his normal game style and wants to document the journey.

Episode 1 sets the tone for the entire series as with creating the new account, the starter missions, the first income sources, and the mindset needed to grow from nothing in New Eden.

The Youtube channel / Eve Online

There is a lot of useful videos there covering Eve Online including Industry, Trading and other isk making ventures.  Full use of Excel.

Almost 14k subscribers.  First video 18 years ago.

It is best viewed in his playlists to get a sense of what is available.

Examples are:

Master EVE Online Multiboxing

How to Run Abyssal Deadspace Sites

How to Setup Excel for EVE Online

How to make ISK in EVE Online

The Website

As far as i can tell this is a collection of his videos.  https://squadb.com/

Alpha Market Trading - general tips on the mechanics of making this all work

Now that my project of taking an account from alpha to Omega and keeping it there is completed, below are some tips.

Excel

Excel is your friend.  It manages your business.  The Excel sheets you start off with when you isk is 10 million will be the foundations when your wealth is 2 trillion.

Start with them early and you will only get better as you build on them.

In a post in the near term i will show the sheets i used but don't underestimate the enjoyment of starting with spreadsheets you design yourself and then iterating them to greatness.

Copying from game to excel

The game is very much like a word doc, or excel spreadsheet.  Right clicking the mouse on an item name, character name etc and pressing copy, or selecting a list of items and right click - copy or CTRL C puts the info into your clipboard.

And then that can be pasted to Excel as text.

Items in your inventory, items from the market browser, items of text in descriptions etc.  you name it.  it all copies over.

Copying from excel to the game

Works exactly the same way.  Text can be copied from any platform into any text box in the game including your market quickbar.  Or the MultiBuy.  etc.

And its not just Excel.  You can copy text from word docs, websites etc.  The game will attempt to work out what you are meaning (so try and get the exact name).

Eve Excel add in

If you don't use any third party tools that keep track of your items, sell orders etc (like me, i don't use any of those) then the Eve Excel add in is a must.

In a following post i will show the spreadsheets and Eve Excel add in formulas i used.

Ingame Quickbar

Don't view this as a permanent list of items.  Look at it as a temporary list that is fed from copying and pasting from excel.

Multibuy

A beautiful function.  This allows you to buy a whole list of items in one shot rather than double clicking on each item and buying each item individually.

you can review the cost of each item vs Regional average to make sure you are not buying something at a stupid price.

But this saves a load of time.

Alpha Market Trading - 1 billion wealth

3 March 2026

The background to this series: i aiming to use Regional Trading between Jita and Dodixie to take an alpha account to Omega status.

My wealth passed 1 billion.

This is day 23 of this project.

Sell Orders now in Dodixie

Each character has a maximum of 17 order slots.

And i am getting close to using all the slots from all 3 characters.  I suspect i won't run into a slot problem as i move out of the lower valued items and replace with higher valued items.

Comes to a total of 1.3 billion isk as Sell Orders.

Current Wealth.

If i only look at ISK + Market Orders + Items in Inventory that are to be sold (so ignore my catalyst, ammo etc), then my worth is 1.0 billion which is made up from

ISK 8.5m

Inventory 0.1m

Sell Orders 1266.4m

Provision 253.3m

I have always taken a 20% provision against my Sell Orders which reflects the Transaction Tax that will be paid when the items sell + the cost of reducing the price to keep it competitive if required + the eventual reduced price when sold.  In reality, i rarely end up needing this provision.  But lets keep things conservative and understand that the only ISK is ISK.  Everything else is an approximation until sold.

Alpha Market Trading - over 900 million

1 March 2026

The background to this series: i aiming to use Regional Trading between Jita and Dodixie to take an alpha account to Omega status.

My wealth is now over 900 million isk.

This is day 22 of this project.

I am now using 3 characters in Dodixie and have another character in second account in Jita buying the items from Sell Orders to courier to Dodixie.

I use third party couriers given i am now sending over 100 million of items.

Ongoing work to find items to sell in Dodixie

I am now willing to buy items for up to 100 million isk in Jita to sell in Dodixie.

There are two key criteria: 1) margin must be over 22-25%; and 2) the sales volume needs to be at least 1 every 2 or 3 days.

I am looking through Blueprints, implants, boosters, rigs, ship equipment and subsystems.

As my wealth grows two things are happening:

1) I am moving out of the lower value items.  Their profit margins are some of the best but they no longer move the dials.  Buying missile blueprints in Jita for 1 million and selling in Dodixie for 2 million is great stuff but is now pocket money.

2) The upper value i am willing to contemplate is rising.

Therefore, i keep assessing the same items and rejecting some because they are too low in value and accepting new ideas which are now in my value range.  I.e. items i can buy for 1 million are out vs items i can buy for 40 million are in.

Sell Orders now in Dodixie

Each character has a maximum of 17 order slots.

And i am getting close to using all the slots from all 3 characters.  I suspect i won't run into a slot problem as i move out of the lower valued items and replace with higher valued items.

Comes to a total of 1.1 billion isk as Sell Orders.

Current Wealth.

If i only look at ISK + Market Orders + Items in Inventory that are to be sold (so ignore my catalyst, ammo etc), then my worth is 956.0 million which is made up from

ISK 86.3m

Inventory 0.1m

Sell Orders 1087.0m

Provision 217.4m

I have always taken a 20% provision against my Sell Orders which reflects the Transaction Tax that will be paid when the items sell + the cost of reducing the price to keep it competitive if required + the eventual reduced price when sold.  In reality, i rarely end up needing this provision.  But lets keep things conservative and understand that the only ISK is ISK.  Everything else is an approximation until sold.

Alpha Market Trading - over 500 million, 15th day

24 February 2026

The background to this series: i aiming to use Regional Trading between Jita and Dodixie to take an alpha account to Omega status.

My wealth is now over 500 million isk.  Actually that was the day before, it is now over 600 million.

I am now using 3 characters in Dodixie and have another character in second account in Jita buying the items from Sell Orders to courier to Dodixie.

I use third party couriers given i am now sending over 100 million of items.

Ongoing work to find items to sell in Dodixie

I am now willing to buy items for up to 50 million isk in Jita to sell in Dodixie.

There are two key criteria: 1) margin must be over 22-25%; and 2) the sales volume needs to be at least 1 every 2 or 3 days.

I am looking through Blueprints, implants, boosters, rigs, ship equipment and subsystems.

Sell Orders now in Dodixie

Each character has a maximum of 17 order slots.

Three Characters are posting sell orders for now.  17 from my first character, 17 from my second and 3 from my third.

Comes to a total of 733 million isk as Sell Orders.

Current Wealth.

If i only look at ISK + Market Orders + Items in Inventory that are to be sold (so ignore my catalyst, ammo etc), then my worth is 628.5 million which is made up from

ISK 42.2m

Inventory 0.1m

Sell Orders 732.7m

Provision 146.5m

I have always taken a 20% provision against my Sell Orders which reflects the Transaction Tax that will be paid when the items sell + the cost of reducing the price to keep it competitive if required + the eventual reduced price when sold.  In reality, i rarely end up needing this provision.  But lets keep things conservative and understand that the only ISK is ISK.  Everything else is an approximation until sold.

Alpha Market Trading - tenth day, over 300 million

18 February 2026

The background to this series: i aiming to use Regional Trading between Jita and Dodixie to take an alpha account to Omega status.

My wealth is now over 300 million isk.

I am using two characters, both in Dodixie.  And i have a third character in Dodixie ready to start selling.

Couriering items from Jita to Dodixie

Today i came home to over 80 million of sales.  That is too much for me to carry in my Catalyst destroyer - so i am issuing courier contracts for someone else to haul my items from Jita to Dodixie.

i add 20% collateral and offer a 2% fee on all that.

So, in this first case, the items came to 84 million, so total collateral was 101 million (84 + 20%), and the fee offered was 2 million (2% of 101).  It arrived within an hour.

Sales

This is going slower than in the past, i have to admit.  But i am enjoying this.  There is a definite advantage for being at home - i can do my cycles in a day.

Minimum Margin 25%

Transaction fees do weigh at 7.5%.  Broker fees are 1.5%.  And now Courier fees 2%.  So 10% of my Sales are effectively taken up in fees.

Therefore, i will estateblish that the minimum item profit margin i will accept is 25%.

This is all with reference to Sales.

So, if i buy something for 75 in Jita, i must sell it for 100 in Dodixie.  The item profit will be 25 (100 - 75).  From this i will have paid 2m in courier fees (2%). 1.5 million in Broker Fees (1.5%) and then 7.5 million on sale (7.5%).

Leaving 15 million from the 100 million sale.

ouch.

Sell Orders now in Dodixie

The first two Characters are posting sell orders for now.  17 from my first character and 15 from my second.

Comes to a total of 378 million isk as Sell Orders.

Current Wealth.

If i only look at ISK + Market Orders + Items in Inventory that are to be sold (so ignore my catalyst, ammo etc), then my worth is 334.8 million which is made up from

ISK 31.8m

Inventory 0.4m

Sell Orders 378.2m

Provision 75.6m

I have always taken a 20% provision against my Sell Orders which reflects the Transaction Tax that will be paid when the items sell + the cost of reducing the price to keep it competitive if required + the eventual reduced price when sold.  In reality, i rarely end up needing this provision.  But lets keep things conservative and understand that the only ISK is ISK.  Everything else is an approximation until sold.

Alpha Market Trading - eighth day, over 200m

15 February 2026

The background to this series: i aiming to use Regional Trading between Jita and Dodixie to take an alpha account to Omega status.

My wealth is now over 200 million isk.

I am using two characters, both in Dodixie.

New Items to Buy

I am now selling items that i buy from Sell Orders in Jita that cost up to 20 million isk.

And i am using the Eve Excel Addin to help me find and organise it all.  That will be the subject of my next post.

The weekend has been busy, i can log in more often.  Therefore better able to keep replacing items that have been sold much quicker.

Couriering

I am still doing my own couriering.  Though the last haul today was a Jita market value of 60 million isk.  Once i get to 80m i will be outsourcing it to third parties who know what they are doing, can take the risk and therefore leave me insured against loss.

Sales

The main learning point is that Skill Books are competitive - therefore i will not be trading in Skill Books from here.

Blueprints at the 1-5 million isk level are steady sellers.

And i am finding decently sellers in the 5-20 million levels also, as shown below.

Third Character introduced

I have added a third character to Dodixie.  That will bring the total Market Order slots available to 51 (17 x 3).

Sell Orders now in Dodixie

The first two Characters are posting sell orders for now.  17 from my first character and 15 from my second.

Transaction fees do weigh at 7.5%.

Comes to a total of 285 million isk as Sell Orders.

Current Wealth.

If i only look at ISK + Market Orders + Items in Inventory that are to be sold (so ignore my catalyst, ammo etc), then my worth is 231.5million which is made up from

ISK 2.8

Inventory 0.5m

Sell Orders 285.2m

Provision 57.0m

I have always taken a 20% provision against my Sell Orders which reflects the Transaction Tax that will be paid when the items sell + the cost of reducing the price to keep it competitive if required + the eventual reduced price when sold.  In reality, i rarely end up needing this provision.  But lets keep things conservative and understand that the only ISK is ISK.  Everything else is an approximation until sold.

Alpha market trading - fifth day, over 100m

12 February 2026

The background to this series: i aiming to use Regional Trading between Jita and Dodixie to take an alpha account to Omega status.

My wealth is now over 100 million isk.

I am using two characters, both in Dodixie.

New Items to Buy

For now i can mostly rely on the items i was selling on day 1.  Though i am now on the lookout for items costing 5-10 million in Jita.

Hence the Nurotoxin Control item i bought for 11.7 million.  That could sell for 17.5 million in Dodixie  

In all, this batch of purchases from Sell Orders in Jita came to around 24 million isk.  So still ok to courier it myself.  I will start to worry at around 80 million i think.

Sell Orders now in Dodixie

Both Characters are now posting sell orders.  17 from my first character and 12 from my second.

Transaction fees do weigh at 7.5%.

Comes to a total of 130.8 million isk as Sell Orders.

Current Wealth.

If i only look at ISK + Market Orders + Items in Inventory that are to be sold (so ignore my catalyst, ammo etc), then my worth is 112.0 million which is made up from

ISK 6.8

Inventory 0.5m

Sell Orders 130.8m

Provision 26.2m

I have always taken a 20% provision against my Sell Orders which reflects the Transaction Tax that will be paid when the items sell + the cost of reducing the price to keep it competitive if required + the eventual reduced price when sold.  In reality, i rarely end up needing this provision.  But lets keep things conservative and understand that the only ISK is ISK.  Everything else is an approximation until sold.

Alpha market trading - Eve Tycoon

Eve Tycoon is a website that does many things but for me it shows the Eve market browser.  Simple as that.

The URL is https://evetycoon.com/market

It is very easy to use, works just like the market browser in game.

For example, in the image below i am looking up the price of Caldari Drone Specialisation Skill in Jita.

You can search for specific items or use it as a browser.

For a quick way to look up the price of an item in a given market, or across all markets, it is very efficient.

Alpha market trading - Second Day + Second Character created.

9 February 2026 - evening

The background to this series: i aiming to use Regional Trading between Jita and Dodixie to take an alpha account to Omega status.

I am now on workday routines = log in during the evening, get more items from Jita to replace sold items  and add more as cash allows.

Sales made

I sold 23.6 million from 7 items.  And paid around 2.2 million in Transaction Taxes.

Therefore, i have 26.4 million isk to invest back into the market.

Buy items to sell

I will spend 24.2 million buying:

Amarr Drone Specialization

Heron Blueprint

Inferno Heavy Missile Blueprint

Large Precursor Weapon

Medium Disintegrator Specialization

Mining Director

Minmatar Drone Specialization

Scourge Cruise Missile Blueprint

Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Blueprint

Torpedo Specialization

So a bit more than i have the Slot availability to sell, but no matter, i can store the items in inventory and put for sale and space allows.

Sending a second character to Dodixie

Lets not mess around.  I will also operate a second character out of Dodixie.

he will be called Sergeant James Graham - after the man that helped James Macdonell shut the gates at Hougoumont farmhouse at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815.

I won't bother putting this character through the career missions.  He goes straight to Dodixie to start posting Sell Orders.

Sell Orders now in Dodixie

Both Characters are now posting sell orders.  17 from my first character and 1 from my second.

Transaction fees do weigh at 7.5%.

Comes to a total of 87.2 million isk as Sell Orders.

Current Wealth.

If i only look at ISK + Market Orders + Items in Inventory that are to be sold (so ignore my catalyst, ammo etc), then my worth is 70.8 million which is made up from

ISK 800k

Inventory 0.2m

Sell Orders 87.2m

Provision 17.4m

I have always taken a 20% provision against my Sell Orders which reflects the Transaction Tax that will be paid when the items sell + the cost of reducing the price to keep it competitive if required + the eventual reduced price when sold.  In reality, i rarely end up needing this provision.  But lets keep things conservative and understand that the only ISK is ISK.  Everything else is an approximation until sold.

Alpha market trading - First day

8 February 2026 - afternoon

The background to this series: i aiming to use Regional Trading between Jita and Dodixie to take an alpha account to Omega status.

Sales made

I have made some sales overnight.

2 items, the Minmatar Drone Specialization skill and Caldari drone Specialisation Skill.  Raising 8.5m from an investment of 5m.

Had to pay transaction taxes of over 600k.

That gives me isk of 8.4 million to spend.

Buying more items to sell

I decide to spend 7.1 million buying:

Caldari Drone Specialization

Mining Director

Mining Foreman

Minmatar Drone Specialization

As an aside, i buy 5 Mining Foreman Skill books.  They are very low in Jita vs Dodixie - so lkets keep one or two in reserve to put up quickly if they sell well.

For now, i am flying my catalyst between Jita and Dodixie to pick the items up.  No one is going to bother with a catalyst carrying a few million isk worth items.

The Buy and Sell Table

I get these bad boys to Dodixe and put them up for Sale.

Below is the table showing the prices i spent in Jita and the Sell Orders i have put up in Dodixie.

Broker Fees around 370k.

And therefore, this is the current Sale items in Dodixie:

Current cash 867k.

Alpha market trading - The First Trades

8 February 2026 - early hours of the morning

So, i start with 12m million isk.

I sit in Dodixie (in the old days you could see your cabin in the station).

What i am looking for are items with little competition that sell once or twice a day.

The Basic Rules of Regional Trading

Think of your customers as players with billions who are careful on their spending but time poor.

At this starting level, the Tycoons and big cheeses are not competing against you.  It will never be easier than this.

Players will be careful on price for items that are consumable like ammo or items used in manufacturing but wont care on items that can be bought once and rarely lost.  Like Blueprints.

As a general rule, if an item appears on someone's spreadsheet then avoid it.

Players wont travel even one jump to save on price unless the difference is outrageous.  So for us, a Blueprint selling in Dodixie for 1 million vs 300k one jump out will still sell for 1 million in Dodixie.

Blueprints for ammo - they are good to go.  Players don't care about price.  Skill books also.  Items that a player will likely buy once only - they will be price insenstive.

When i am sitting in Dodixie, how do i know the price if items in Jita?

There are a number of ways.  For now i use Eve Tycoon or the Eve Excel Addin.

My next blog post will be on Eve Tycoon

What to sell

So i am going to go for Ammo Blueprints.

I am looking for items that i can Buy in Jita from Sell Orders and Sell in Dodixie for a lot more.

I am avoiding items in Jita that are sold by NPCs (i.e. Expires in over 90 days, typically >300 days).

The initial ideas are:

Amarr Drone Specialization

Caldari Drone Specialization

Inferno Heavy Assault Missile Blueprint

Inferno Heavy Missile Blueprint

Minmatar Drone Specialization

Mjolnir Cruise Missile Blueprint

Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Blueprint

Mjolnir Heavy Missile Blueprint

Nova Cruise Missile Blueprint

Nova Heavy Assault Missile Blueprint

Nova Heavy Missile Blueprint

Scourge Cruise Missile Blueprint

Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Blueprint

Scourge Heavy Missile Blueprint

Venture Blueprint

I decide to try and sell:

In other words, i spend 11.3 million on buying items in Jita from Sell Orders and i put them up in Dodixie for a total of 27.8 million.

I spent 663k on Broker Fees.  My alpha character pays 3% Broker Fees.

Cash left is 510k.  So all nicely invested.  Which is what i want.

My alpha character has 17 Order slots, so 8 are now used.

Lets see how this goes.

A lovely screen shot

Alpha market trading - Starting the new Character

The General Idea

So here we go, i am created a new account and will complete the training program and see what isk that gives me purely remaining in alpha state.

Every time i have re-started Eve Online i have paid for the first month and then relied on buying plex to Omega the account.

Not this time.  So i am interested to see how far i can get in pure alpha state.

The aim is to use alpha characters only to get to Omega status and then demonstrate that this is sustainable.

Will not be live

I will likely talk about what is going on with a delay sufficient enough not to create competition against myself.  That will likely mean a delay of 55 days or so.  I don't want the pressure of updating the blog given real life is being real life.

I can of course provide all proof of what is going on with screen shots.

For reference, the first day of trades started on 8 February 2026.

Eve Guru

Oz on his twitch channel and also his youtube channel is doing a starter character using Eve Guru - so lets not double up on that and do it the traditional way though this time using the Excel Addin

The General Plan

I will be doing Regional Trading and locate my first trading character in Dodixie.

Again, Oz is doing Station Trading.  So that base is covered.

I will buy from Sell Orders in Jita and put these items up for sale in Dodixie.

Regional Trading

Regional Trading is buying items in Jita and transporting them to other Regions to sell.  Simple as that.

The Characters

My capsuleer in Dodixie will be called James Macdonell (named after officer that closed the gates at Hougoumont farmhouse at the Battle of Waterloo.  Naturally.).

Initially i will be doing my own couriering.

Starter Missions

So i speed through the introduction a couple of cognacs into things and started on the starter missions wiht the career agents.

And now i am doing the starter missions - which is a slog in itself for old players but new clearly for first timers.

They are well designed and equip you with what you need as you progress - so just sit back and enjoy them.

Starting capital

Once done and everything sold you should have around 12 million isk.

So then i fly off to Dodixie to start my venture into Regional Trading.

A few points about the starter missions

1) google / copilot is your friend if you get stuck

2) harder to take short cuts these days so read the requirements carefully (if it says mine and deliver 1000 veldspar you can buy the 1000 veldspar to take a shot cut but you have to mine at least one cycle of it)

3) the two Industrialist career missions "Making Mountains of Molehills" and "Balancing the Books" can be done at the same done and are quick.  If you are new then avoiding shortcuts is preferred.  If not, then quite often items can be bought rather than produced or fully mined.  Those two get you about 7 million isk.

4) The battle missions Enforcer and Solder of Fortune are fun and easy.  Do the Solder of Fortune first, get the Catalyst and then breeze through the Enforcer missions.

5) Don't bother with the Explorer Agent. Way too confusing.  Seriously, what is going on?  Lost my probes early doors.  Gave up.  No idea how it works.

6) At the end, get into your Catalyst, sell everything else including the ships, trash the rest, and fly off to Dodixie to start your Trading on the way to become a Tycoon.  Muhahahaha.

Trading ideas for those at the absolute start of the journey - theory and practice, part 2

Continuing the theme of looking at ideas to start a new trader off with - such an idea for those selling in Dodixie would be the Heron Blueprint.

Going through the usual checklist:

1) State of the Dodixie competition:

Well, there is absolutely no competition in Dodixie for the Heron Blueprint.

The question is would there be any buyers anyway?

2) Market volume check:

It would seem that when there was something to sell, the Buyers bought one a day or so.

So, i suspect we have an item here that could sell for 6m isk.

3) The Seller's prices in Jita:

The good news is that the Jita seller is a NPC (days to expire is >300 where as a plyer can post for a max of 90 days).

And the sell price is 2.75m isk.

4) After all costs, is this profitable:

Buy for 2.75m isk, sell for 6m isk.  profits 3.25m isk before Accounting, Broking and Courier costs.  Still, will be a very profitable item.

5) Ability to transfer the item from Jita:

its a blueprint and so is 0m3 - any ship could carry this.

so, all boxes are ticked: no competition; volume is there when there is something to sell; Jita price is nailed to the wall by an npc seller; item is good profits; the item is small enough to be couriered by any ship.

Seems a good idea for a beginner play to buy 1 and stick it up for sale in Dodixie.

 

Trading ideas for those at the absolute start of the journey - theory and practice

If you have just started Eve and come out of the training with a cool 10m ISK then it can be somewhat daunting to know where to start if becoming a trader is your desire.

My Strategy - the theory

My strategy in trading has always been to focus on slow moving (i.e 1 or 2 items are sold per day in the market) but high margin (at least 25%, i.e. buy for 75, sell for 100 is a 25% margin).  That way, i avoid much of the competition, i don't have to update my prices too often and i get a nice steady income with minimal work.  I buy from Sellers rather than place a Buy order.

My Strategy - in practice

So, lets assume you have your 10m, are sitting in Dodixie - where to start?

The Scourge Heavy Missile Blueprint hits the mark:

In dodixie it is selling for 2.988m isk each.  There is one item up there that was updated 37 minutes ago and someone has put a block of 3 up though not updated them for 3 days.  So, it looks like we have one competitor.

and it is selling about 1 or 2 a day with some days on 0.  So more than enough for both me and this competitor to make nice sales.

The big traders, or even someone worth over 200m would not bother with this.  But for a 10m player, it is good isk.

In Jita, using EveTycoon, it is selling from NPCs (i.e. infinite amounts at a set price) for 750k isk.  https://evetycoon.com/market/810

You can always tell if it is an NPC seller because the Expiry Time is over 300 days vs a player than can only have 90 days maximum.

Now, with my 10m i would buy one of them and put it up for sale for 2.9m isk.  That is a great profit for 2.15m isk that in an instant would increase my wealth by 20%!

It wont take long to realise that all the Heavy Missile blueprints meet these criteria (low competition, great margins, stable low price in Jita).  As do some of the Cruise Missile Blueprints.

Conclusion

Keep this up and that 10m becomes 100m very quickly, and it wont be long before you move off from these Missile Blueprints.  That is the point here - this is not a market to stay in but rather one to seed your initial wealth with - another reason by you don't see the large traders, they have all moved on